sgraber
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 posted on 26/1/05 at 06:38 PM |
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Rod shifter linkage for transverse middy?
Can anyone supply me with some info and/or photos of a rod shifter style transverse tranny mounted in a mid-engine configuration.
I have a friend who will be building the next La Bala using a Honda B16 donor engine. That transmission has a rod-actuated shifter.
Thanks
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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kb58
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| posted on 26/1/05 at 07:26 PM |
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Over on www.attackforums.com there was a picture showing how they did theirs. In their case they had a cable shift tranny, but used rods from the
shifter back to right ahead of the engine, then used bell-cranks to invert the direction and switch to cable the rest of the way.
I can see how you could use rods all the way back, under the pan, which gets pretty close. The hard part is turning 90deg upward, then another 90deg
to the shift levers...
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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sgraber
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| posted on 26/1/05 at 07:51 PM |
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What about the shifter developed by Stanisforth and used on the Terrapin?
Does the Mini trans work with a rod in a similar fashion?
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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kb58
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| posted on 26/1/05 at 07:58 PM |
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Yes, but since he was building a single-seater (and being British) the rods are on the right side of the car, going straight back, above and to the
side of the tranny. It worked well but only because the rods were high and to the right. For a two seater with the shifter in the center, it runs
face-first into the block...
FWIW he also tried tried hydraulic actuation, with two push-pull pistons at each end, but he didn't like how it worked.
Both reasons are why I used push-pull cables. I'd rather have used rods but couldn't see how to pull it off.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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wheelsinsteadofhooves
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| posted on 26/1/05 at 10:16 PM |
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not sure how much use to you guys in the states but "kit car" mag here featured mk ith audi trans at the back with some great photos of
the linkage, rod actuated with some simple pivots to make it work. no photos on their site though.
if i have any presence of mind in morning will take mag to office to scan and post.
atb
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sgraber
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| posted on 26/1/05 at 10:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kb58
For a two seater with the shifter in the center, it runs face-first into the block...
How about running it under the engine, between the oilpan and the tranny? There is a lot of room there.
Is the MK ITH transverse? I would love to see the photos if you can manage it!
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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sgraber
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| posted on 26/1/05 at 10:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by wheelsinsteadofhooves
mk ith
what is that car?
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Dean
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| posted on 26/1/05 at 10:58 PM |
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I think he meant "with" not "ith". lol
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Alan B
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| posted on 26/1/05 at 10:58 PM |
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Steve, I think it's...MK With Audi trans.....
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sgraber
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 posted on 26/1/05 at 11:38 PM |
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ooops. hehehe
But the more I think About it, the audi is traditionally a longitudinal Transaxle? right? Or is there a transverse unit?
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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tadltd
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| posted on 26/1/05 at 11:54 PM |
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Try: RCS (Remote Control Systems)
I saw their kit at the Autosport show and chatted with a guy called Gordon Riseley.
It's very impressive stuff (they do the g/shift cable mechanism for the new GT40) - one of their demo pieces was a push-pull cable tied like a
reef knot - tightly - and it still worked smoothly (I tried it out).
They can do one-off's in just about any length with a wide variety of end fittings.
[Edited on 26/1/05 by tadltd]
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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kb58
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 01:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
quote:
Originally posted by kb58
For a two seater with the shifter in the center, it runs face-first into the block...
How about running it under the engine, between the oilpan and the tranny? There is a lot of room there.
That's what I said in my first post:
I can see how you could use rods all the way back, under the pan, which gets pretty close. The hard part is turning 90deg upward, then another
90deg to the shift levers...
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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kb58
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 01:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
Try: RCS (Remote Control Systems)
They need to work on their website. It's not helpful to have a website saying "we can do anything, write us an e-mail." Some
pictures of products, data, app-notes would do wonders...
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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sgraber
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 02:04 AM |
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^ Kurt, I missed that part of your post. oops. 
I am still wondering if the mini shift motion is similar in action to the Honda. If so, I would say that the nifty rod and pawl that Stanisforth used
is still suitable and could be modified to work, even from underneath the oilpan. If you have the High Speed-Low Cost book, you can see that the
distance from the 90d turn is pretty far...
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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wheelsinsteadofhooves
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 09:36 AM |
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my mistake, was indeed supposed to be "mk with..."
also appears i got wrong end of stick and you (or friend) using transverse number, not longi as per audi.
still want scan?
cheers
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MikeR
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 01:06 PM |
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i'd love a scan, just picked up a audi trans for my next project and gear change is one of the worrys
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 01:31 PM |
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Steve, searching for some photos - My Terrapin uses the latest mini rod change mechanism - change is mounted on side of driver, rod runs through rose
joint to rear of car, diverts to centre via UJ, then through bulkhead (another UJ) andd then connects to the gearbox via a bellcrank.
Used on Midas, GTM kit cars where mini engine is at rear.
Doug explains the principle here, my version is a little less agricultural (if you know what I mean)
http://www.westhouse.plus.com/hawke12.htm
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 01:37 PM |
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best i could find
 
Rescued attachment Terrapinlinkage.jpg
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TheGecko
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 01:38 PM |
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There's some good info on making cable shifters for the Audi box on
this page. Could be applied to a transverse rod-change box
too. Cables are a LOT easier to route in a mid-engine setup than a rod.
Dominic
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sgraber
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 03:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrapin_racing
Steve, searching for some photos - My Terrapin uses the latest mini rod change mechanism - change is mounted on side of driver, rod runs through rose
joint to rear of car, diverts to centre via UJ, then through bulkhead (another UJ) andd then connects to the gearbox via a bellcrank.
Used on Midas, GTM kit cars where mini engine is at rear.
Doug explains the principle here, my version is a little less agricultural (if you know what I mean)
http://www.westhouse.plus.com/hawke12.htm
That is a great start! You can easily picture this setup in the centre of a LHD (USA spec) middy with the gear change rod running down the center
console and under the oil pan. And your attached photo is fantastic! Now if I could "just" see an image of the bellcrank mechanism on the
other side of the engine and how it attaches to the gearbox... Is it similar in action to the old VW beetle transaxles? (I am showing my ignorance at
this stage!  )
So far this thread has more than paid for my membership!
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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marc n
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 03:17 PM |
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we use push pull series cables ( m5 rodends on each end ) on our bike engined cars, can route the cable just about anywhere and still get a nice
smooth action without any play.
regards
marc
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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sgraber
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 03:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TheGecko
There's some good info on making cable shifters for the Audi box on
this page. Could be applied to a transverse rod-change box
too. Cables are a LOT easier to route in a mid-engine setup than a rod.
Dominic
Wow Dominic! That is a real find. My 3rd La Bala, (which is already having parts sourced for it) is using a Buick Grand national GNX V6 and the AudiS
transaxle. So that page is exceptionally brilliant.
There should be no reason that a transmission that was originally rod-shifted could not be converted to cable. Especially now that I have seen that
Lambo website. Sweet.
Which of the 2 methods - cable or rod - would be the sloppier? I've never used a rod actuated middy shifter before, just my own Toyota cable
operated one, which is pretty good.
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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wheelsinsteadofhooves
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 03:41 PM |
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scan still on way. due to unforseen circs`have had to take day off work. lambo lounge link is great but theyre using a different audi box to that
fitted to the 80/a4. still nice ideas (and pictures though).
gotta love those terrapins!
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 01:01 PM |
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Steve, I'll take some close up photos at weekend for you.
Incidentally, cable great for sequential bike gearbox - gets complex for h pattern change as you may see on Audi
Spoke to Gordon before on this (cable shift company) not easy to resolve & can be expensive - he is keeping me posted with developments
[Edited on 28/1/05 by Terrapin_racing]
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sgraber
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 11:31 PM |
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Any and all photos and ideas are welcome! Thank you in advance.
Graber
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