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Author: Subject: Warner R4 Build Diary
sgraber

posted on 22/12/06 at 06:05 PM Reply With Quote
I'm really intrigued by your chassis shape and I think it has a lot of potential. It just looks 'fast' sitting still and that's great. I would like to know about the sightlines for the driver and have you done any modeling or research into that and let me tell you what I am thinking. The trouble right now is the side bar and the head, Your current seating is very upright. So why not recline the seating position drastically and get the noggin below the bar? Then remove the crosstube in front of the passenger area, replaced by a triangulation brace forward. That would open the sight line to the front, and lowering the head would give you a sight line out between your top tubes?

Just an idea....

Graber





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thomas4age

posted on 22/12/06 at 06:23 PM Reply With Quote
I don't now how wide the area between the seats is, but MR2 MK1's have very slim tanks in the transmissiontunnel, maybe one of those would fit your needs,

they're steel items so easily modified

here's a piccie



That would sureley be the best spot to put the tank cog wise and safetywise

Nice going there btw!

grtz Thomas

[Edited on 22/12/06 by thomas4age]





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gttman

posted on 22/12/06 at 06:44 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cloudy
I'm hugely lacking in space at the front end, I *might* manage it but it would be VERY close to a front impact, just a bit of a worry

James


Why is it a worry... it'll be better protected than a tank at the rear and further from the driver and no hot engine to ignite it!

And its not always the front of the car that takes the impact in a crash, you just as likelly to go backwards into a hedge or get hit from behind etc.





Andygtt

Please redefine your limits

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Doug68

posted on 23/12/06 at 08:56 AM Reply With Quote
The thought with my previous post was to tip it so the flat was on the bottom.

I'm sure I've seen more than one trike with a beer keg as a petrol tank and those things are near indestructible (the keg that is)!

In my design the tanks on the floor behind the seats BTW, but I want to have 40L+ on tap.

Dick Bear has really neat pictures of doing it this way where he used 2 separate tanks.

Merry Christmas!

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erwe

posted on 23/12/06 at 08:16 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cloudy
I was thinking of perhaps redoing the chassis when I got bored, and i'd like to loosely base the design on this:

James



Do you more information or pics of this desing?

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cloudy

posted on 23/12/06 at 11:12 PM Reply With Quote
To answer your comments,


sgraber - many thanks, re: the seats - that's the current plan, but as you rightly point out reclining the seats may bring out serious visibilty problems, at the moment it's fine - I will have to do a bit of experimentation when it's warm enough to get back out to the garage

erwe: That car is an australian concept I can't remember the name - it's similar to the caparo T1, will post if i can think of it
EDIT: It's the "Hulme F1"


as regards the tank, it fits well where it is, and would be great for a logo, (see latest renders) - any comments on whether this is safe 'enough'





J

[Edited on 23/12/06 by cloudy]

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kb58

posted on 24/12/06 at 12:32 AM Reply With Quote
I haven't read the entire thread, so maybe I missed it, but my only concern is how close the driver's head is to the side bars. As long as the helmet isn't optional.

Other than that, I think it's fantastic.





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gttman

posted on 24/12/06 at 11:02 AM Reply With Quote
Well the tank does have some chasis protection at the rear, my only real concern is that it is above the engine so if it does get damaged.......

But lets be realistic here, bikes have them above the engine, and many other kits have them completely unprotected and by the engine.... so if thats what you want, go for it.

Now its been pointed out, Kb has a very good point about how close your head is to that top rail.





Andygtt

Please redefine your limits

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cloudy

posted on 24/12/06 at 01:27 PM Reply With Quote
yeah its been pointed out numerous times, I have a few ideas - the only practical one so far is to step the curved tubes lower for the cabin but it totally ruins the lines - Still scratching my head on this one.

tank would be behind the engine (over the diff)

J

James

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gttman

posted on 24/12/06 at 04:47 PM Reply With Quote
How about lowering the top one 2inches or so and also the one below it by similar amount.

Have you also considered curving the lower bar to a similar shape to the upper one? I think that would compliment the lines well.

BTW It's looking awsome at the moment, great project.





Andygtt

Please redefine your limits

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cloudy

posted on 24/12/06 at 05:54 PM Reply With Quote
the lower half has all been built as per my other version, I don't want to have to rip up any more than I have already.....

James

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JoelP

posted on 24/12/06 at 06:24 PM Reply With Quote
Id be happy with the tank there. Maybe use a fuel cell inside the metal tank? Dont know lots about them but some sort of tear proof tank sounds a good idea
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dr-fastlane

posted on 25/12/06 at 11:54 AM Reply With Quote
Hello James,

Because I had nothing better to do on this Sunday morning. I did some brainstorming, how to get the upper curved tubes free from the driver’s head. And not to disturb the lines of your buggy. Probably taking the upper tube higher, would be the only solution to not hit your head. And it makes it easier to get in and out of the car. Perhaps you can do something with this idée.

Happy Christmas, greets Roy. Rescued attachment roofless_sketch.JPG
Rescued attachment roofless_sketch.JPG






------------------------------
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cloudy

posted on 25/12/06 at 12:03 PM Reply With Quote
interesting approach, I'll have a play about with it - thanks
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akumabito

posted on 25/12/06 at 08:24 PM Reply With Quote
I don't like the high bars..

Just make it a center-steered single-seater!

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JoelP

posted on 25/12/06 at 09:00 PM Reply With Quote
i like the high bars myself. I would also make it a centred single seater, but have a pair of 'seats' on either side (more like padding and harnesses) so that you can still have passengers. I know a bec isnt ideal for a 3 seater but when theres no one in it, its only a few kilos extra, and i think the centre driving position would make up for it - especially the better corner balance.
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cloudy

posted on 25/12/06 at 11:36 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by akumabito


Just make it a center-steered single-seater!


sooooooo tempting!

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Sven

posted on 26/12/06 at 07:33 AM Reply With Quote
I wonder if you could cross those top two tubes or make a halo and join the front and rear to the halo?

-Steve





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designer

posted on 26/12/06 at 02:42 PM Reply With Quote
This style has been done before

http://twintechcars.com/

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Alan B

posted on 26/12/06 at 03:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
......... I would also make it a centred single seater, but have a pair of 'seats' on either side (more like padding and harnesses) so that you can still have passengers..........


Ohhh...sounds familiar...

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JoelP

posted on 26/12/06 at 03:51 PM Reply With Quote
must be a good idea then! I have plans from '04 and a lawyer at the ready! lol
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cloudy

posted on 26/12/06 at 04:57 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by designer
This style has been done before

http://twintechcars.com/


that's awfully malproportioned, not keen!

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Ratman

posted on 26/12/06 at 11:54 PM Reply With Quote
I like this chassis. I like the high bars. When you compare frame designs, ask yourself, which one whould I prefer to be strapped into when the car rolls through the fence and down a bank. High bars win. Note that F1 cars have special inserts each side of the cockpit to limit the sideways movement of the helmet. Obviously the bars will need to be padded. I like the idea of making the finish shape of the car in the frame. But this can have weight liabilities if the resulting frame shape gets compromised when it comes to getting ridged support to the suspension etc mounting points. Permission to rave sir? My preferred concept is (a) make the suspension and engine mounts and seat mounts and roll-over protection frame. (b) locate all these in space. (c) joint them all with straight tubes (d) make it all triangles with extra tubes (e) make closed solid shapes (pyramids etc) with more tubes to give torsional stiffness (f) then start making compromises and contrivences so there is actual space the the engine and driver etc... but try not to compromise the step (e) structural achievements. Shouldn't need to use anything stronger than 20mm ms tube with 1.6 wall. Might not look so svelt, but gets best stiffness for weight. Cheers, Brian
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kreb

posted on 27/12/06 at 03:46 AM Reply With Quote
If I may chime in, the overall design is quite pleasing to the eye, but as has been previously noted, the high side bars are lethal. Also very important is that they'll be a distraction and create a claustrophobic effect. If you've a light car, it should feel light, not like a coffin. Don't be a slave to fashion.





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kb58

posted on 27/12/06 at 06:12 AM Reply With Quote
The side tubes appear to be at eye-level. If so, the driver has no peripheral vision, and to see what coming from the sides means raising or lowering the head to see above or below them.





Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html

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