Hi all, first time here. Basically i'm at the beginning of welding a chassis based on the Haynes Roadster book. I had hoped (dreamed) to use a Hayabusa or a V8 (wildest dreams!) engine but money and practicality has pushed me towards something like a two litre ford. Don't know much about Ford engines but see plenty of dura this and ze that for smallish money on ebay. I want something with plenty of grunt and noise, very very quick, reliable and tunable too (possibly fit a turbo down the line). Any ideas or help GREATLY recieved! Thanks!
Woh woh woh, there...
Don't be so quick to wander away from the Bike engine my friend!!! 
An older Blade/R1, will still impress a lot more than an older ford engine, mostly because of the gear change and revving the nuts off it aspect!
What's your budget for build and engine?
ATB
(And welcome to the forum by the way...)
i like vauxhalls 
red tops are good, loads of power to be had, loads of tuning bits out there for them
ecotecs are the exact same block (so fitting to type 9 gearboxes is simple) similar power to the red top to be had. but not as many tuning parts
available (though there is a LOT more now than there was when i bought my ecotec)
bike engines, meh, i don't know, yeah they are pretty powerful, small, sound good at high revs, not sure i could live with one if i had to drive
too far in it (only driven one once)
ford engines are good too you can probably get more power out them than the vauxhalls, but i'm not sure which ones and by how much more.
I'd go for vauxhall, tried and tested
As Steve says - if the budget doesnt stretch to a Busa then why not an R1 / blade / ZX9R etc?? 1/4 of the price or less and dont need expensive sump changes - just a £40 baffle plate. Not exactly a great deal of performance difference either!!
thanks for all the info and the welcome, much appreciated. after shelling out for a good welder i'm left with nearly £2000 for an engine, currently! this car is going to be a very regular runner for me so just need something a little, well, everyday, know what i mean? as much as i love what bike engines can do, i'm not sure i could listen to one everyday, no offence, because my dream track car is a turbo hayabusa 7 (drool) just maybe next time. never thought about vauxhall (thay're opels over here) but will def look into that now, thanks. am i right in saying that pretty much any size of engine within reason, will fit in? its just a noise thing, LOVE big V8 sound, can listen to that all day! thanks again all.
If you like the sound of the v8, have you considered a 5 cylinder engine such as a volvo or an audi unit (i think fiat did one to but it was fwd)
because a 5 cylinder engine does a good impression of a v8.
I'm looking into the left field choice of a nissan primera engine, 125-150 bhp as standard depending on spec and tundable to 180ish with cams,
manifold and exhaust. Just need to find a way to mount it to a type 9 box
S2000
To answer the question:
2.0 Zetec is cheapest to install
2.0 Red Top is probably cheaper if you want a 200bhp. (See NS Dev's posts)
On the BEC/CEC war that is brewing with boring inevitability.
Remember BEC's will need a reverse for IVA. Getting a BEC to 200bhp is a very expensive exercise.
Have ride in both as BECs are addictive in a marmite kind of a way, certainly not for everyone or best suited to all roles.
If you have £2k to spend on an engine, go for a duratec! Now fitting one to mine, have a look on my website for details.
David
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
If you have £2k to spend on an engine, go for a duratec!
Duratec without a shadow of doubt: all alloy, loads more power available without any internal mods, very reliable, off-the-shelf bellhousing/gearbox options.
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
If you have £2k to spend on an engine, go for a duratec! Now fitting one to mine, have a look on my website for details.
David
ok, had a look on your website, not quite as bad as I thought it might be, looks like the clutch is easier than it could have been in particular!
Once its all done and dynoed, let us know the result, if it makes over 200hp for less than £2000 the I'll consider fitting one when my XE
expires!
I would go with the duratec, as its the new up and coming engine its going to be pretty future proof.
Also, you can use an mx5 gearbox without having to fork out for an expensive bellhousing.
Why dream of a V8 probably the most undesirable engine for a Sevenish car as a big in effiecient V8 will be no faster but rob the chassis of its
nimble handling.
Bike engines are truly fantastic but they are just not designed to drive car drive trains.
In the 1600 to 2 litre size bracket think Ford Vauxhall or Rover.
In a Locost chassis any of these engines will be a lot faster than anything you have ever driven and make the Rover v8 look old and clumsy.
Rover K16 is by far the lightest, Rover M16 & T16 are good very powerful but heavy Vauxhall engines have an awful lot going for them but in
terms of bang per buck and ease to install the Zetec has to be the simplest solution.
LEGENDS ALL!!!!! brilliant advice and thank you all so much. wish i registered here before buying my first shoddy mig welder which didn't work.
ya live ya learn though! i think a duratec is gonna be the way to go judging by the general feedback, best all rounder yeh? now just the small job of
finishing my first welding/chassis/everything else job. seeya in YEARS probably! thanks again
Duratec is definitely "a" way to go,
..but after doing what youre doing now and looking for information the XE definitely sits on top of the pile for best all rounder.
And if you're using a type 9 box then you've got as much effort to put a vauxhall in as you have the duratec.
Going back to your first post, you're going to pay a huge premium for the modern duratec engine. You'll spend more putting it together than
if you fitted an R1 I bet and it'll end up slower.
With 2k, i would say go Duratec if CEC is what you want. If not, from what i've seen on other threads look into older r1's for a BEC.
Im not sure whether a duratec would squeeze into that budget but ask other people that have done it and see flak monkey's build website...
As above, I'm sceptical on that budget....for example, you WILL need to make the sump yourself and you WILL need to be able to sort a megasquirt
installation out from scratch, and find a rolling road that will map it, or somebody with a GOOD map for a std engine.
Bolting the thing in is one thing, getting decent and reliable power quite another.
I would go XE at the moment, as bits are MUCH more readily available, and much cheaper, and in standard form the XE actually seems to make MORE power
than a std duratec (assuming both are fitted with throttle bodies but are otherwise standard)
I am interested in the duratec route though, probably before I dry sump my XE, as I already have a management system which will run a duratec and
access to suitable maps, plus ally welding facilities etc and a set of throttle bodies...........
only worth doing if it will make more power than the XE though and my standard one is just over 200hp at the mo.
Edit - ps my total build cost was circa £5k so engine installation was certainly well under 2K, approx £1500 I think, but again, bear in mind that the
ACTUAL ENGINE only cost me £200 of that!!!!
[Edited on 5/3/09 by NS Dev]
quote:
Originally posted by cooke80
If you like the sound of the v8, have you considered a 5 cylinder engine such as a volvo or an audi unit (i think fiat did one to but it was fwd) because a 5 cylinder engine does a good impression of a v8.
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
.... in standard form the XE actually seems to make MORE power than a std duratec (assuming both are fitted with throttle bodies but are otherwise standard)
I drive a volvo v70 (with inline 5) and I have to say it does sound a little bit like my old v8 truck.
What I will say though is it sounds identical to to the triton V10 I had in my F250
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by cooke80
If you like the sound of the v8, have you considered a 5 cylinder engine such as a volvo or an audi unit (i think fiat did one to but it was fwd) because a 5 cylinder engine does a good impression of a v8.
I have to disagree; inline 5 cylinder engines have even firing angles giving a silky smooth smooth sound, nothing like the rough sound of a cross plane V8 with it's odd firing angles.
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
.... in standard form the XE actually seems to make MORE power than a std duratec (assuming both are fitted with throttle bodies but are otherwise standard)
Really? An otherwise std duratec with parallel throttle bodies makes 195 bhp. Whats an XE make?
Duratec on weber 45's is 170bhp...on tapered throttle bodies is 203bhp
David
[Edited on 5/3/09 by flak monkey]
There's a thread on the Westy site HERE discussing Durabang power.
It does depend a lot on the RR and set up.
I would also argue that with the air filters under the bonnet on the westy that you are going to loose a considerable amount of power (especially with
the short trumpets and squashed in air filter) Maybe a 10% restriction which would see you up at over 190bhp with a decent free flowing set up.
I find it hard to believe that a company such as Raceline or SBdev would overstate their power figures, it leaves you open to all sorts of
litigation....
The proof is in the pudding as they say. Will see what mine makes when its fitted and tweaked.
David
quote:
The proof is in the pudding as they say. Will see what mine makes when its fitted and tweaked.
that westy thread is interesting!! (that sort of thing is what lead me to my first comment, plus driving our race caterham with 220hp duratec worth 7K that really is very little better than my XE truth be told)
Best 2 litre engine? BDG. And turbo 2 litre? BDT. A little bit out of your price range, but at least they are Crossflow based and will spank any BEC
out there,
The best 2.0 litre you will fit is the one you choose.
Are you wanting big budget race spec or bargain basement 150bhp fast road car spec motor?
Im so diplomatic after a few shandies!
Fit the simplest cheapest thing you can find for IVA, pre 94(?) for emissions, then fit a V16 8 cam 112 valve monster.
I am a bit biased, but my pick would be the toyota beams 3sge comes from the altezza/IS200 210hp standard also comes with 6 speed gearbox.. S2000 engine would also be top of the list, but it sure costs alot!!
quote:
Originally posted by gazza285
Best 2 litre engine? BDG. And turbo 2 litre? BDT. A little bit out of your price range, but at least they are Crossflow based
Right them, turbo 2L zetec out of a Focus RST. All the hard bits, sump, flywheel management etc are done already on thousands of zetec posts.
A guy at my work as fitted a duratec 2.3 (new) into his 7. Fast road cams Jenvy throttle bodies and Omex 600. Over 200 bhp. Very nice....Its just
seized and upon further investigation its a "common" fault with these engines and looks to be a very expensive rebuild.....
just thought id share.
John
P.S. the above is only what i have been told.
I would hazard a guess that the big end bearings have let go...
There were also some instances of people using the wrong oil in them which can cause issues.
David
No oil pressure causing them to then fubar eachother. I think he was using 5/30 FS but only at a guess.
http://locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=107224
the thread from a few weeks ago.