Now don't get me wrong...I like Ultimas...very nice cars...
But, boy, are you in trouble if you are in any way critical of them....even to suggest they are a teenie weenie bit pricey is a burning at the stake
offence.....
I accept the product, customer service etc. is first class, but the sheer close mindedness of some of the flock......
Anyone else notice this?...or just me?
I totally agree with that one. I was not allowed to even sit in the demo car when it first arrived in the US for the National Kit Car Show in
California... Maybe I didn't look "rich" enough? (I am a cheap bastard...)
But even worse are those "Meerkat" worshipers... Boy Howdy, try to say some thing bad about the Meerkat. You'll get a voodoo doll in
your likeness with some pins stuck in the most tender of places....
And rightly so...
Haven't had much desire to check out other car-related "churches" since my last bad experience... I suspect that, regardless of name, they still swing the same incense... and have the same mindless followers.
So true.......at least we are somewhat open minded here......
Let them get one with it I say...at least we KNOW we are right....(in an open minded way of course.....)
Tell me about it. I was threatened with legal action for just stating facts on the Ultima board. They are nice cars, my friend built one and subsequently sold it. They are not perfect (show me a car that is!)
Alan,
I too, am a fan of Ultima's vehicals.
Indeed, so much so, that if I had 18-25k spare, I'd be writing them a cheque.
I don't think their prices are that bad, considering everything is bespoke. Uprights/rack etc all made for Ultima to their spec - no donor parts
apart from Porsche box and a large engine.
Mind you, just seen the prices on US site. THEY are a bit steep!
ATB
Simon
Simon, it's maybe not a value for money issue....they give great performance per pound/dollar...it's just finding that amount of cash...
Yes, if I was honest, and had the spare cash I'd be tempted too......but as Paul says they or any car is not perfect.
I actually do admire the Ultima busness model, they do seem to have got it right...get the product as near perfect as possible...get the customer
service right...all together very professional set up.
quote:
Originally posted by ProjectLMP
Tell me about it. I was threatened with legal action for just stating facts on the Ultima board....
Well, I went to the factory on my honeymoon and they were really nice to us. We had 2 huge backpacks and showed up about 2 hours late (missed the
train). The guy was very professinal. I am sure when we left he was like "Wow, that was a waste of time, they will never buy one".
They are abit steep over here though (Canada). To build a budget one I would be looking at about $60-70K. Alot of money when you could buy a new M3
for about the same (or the S60R Volvo, AWD 300hp mmmm).
I will buy one though, they are really uniqe cars over here and I liked the company alot. I hope to have one in 5 years
I think it's good business to never make assumptions about who will and won't buy...you just never know, or even who they know who may be
interested....
When I was in the kit business 20 years ago we treated everyone the same (rude to everyone.....joking..)....after they had gone we'd swap
opinions on who'd buy and who wouldn't...we were often wrong...
In my experience I find there is lots of attention to a new kit car, but very few buyers put down money - maybe 0.1%. A buddy who's thinking
about starting a kit car company is so aware of this he says "info packs" will be $100. Yes, an income source. It also locks out people
who want free info but have neither real interest nor the money to buy. His logic is, if they can't demonstrate they're willing to spend
$100 on the car, (a tiny amount compared to the kit) it's a good bet they're not buyers.
I tend to agree with him.
BTW the Attack forum disagreed with me on this, but I digress...
[Edited on 15/1/04 by kb58]
quote:
Originally posted by kb58.....the Attack forum disagreed with me on this.....
I think it's good business to never make assumptions about who will and won't buy...you just never know
I know a rich farmer, he looked like a farmer too, who went into the local mercedes dealership (when we had one) salespeople ignored him, and when he
asked how much the mersedes suv's were worth, he was told "more than you can afford" so he went across the street and bought a BMW.
[Edited on 15/1/04 by violentblue]
Ted Marlow's alright. I've talked with him at some length at the factory. I wouldn't buy one, however, even if I did have the cash.
It ain't pretty enough. 
Trouble is, if he made a pretty one, he'd have to charge the same as a TVR... or a Mosler.
Perceived vaue is a weird thing. I'm hoping it stays that way... 
Mark.
quote:
Perceived value is a weird thing. I'm hoping it stays that way...
Spotty,
I don't think you could compare a BMW (yawn) and a Volvo (very big yawn) with the Ultima.
For starters they're both saloon(ish) cars, and while they maybe practical, are way out of the Ultima performance envelope. The only car to come
close is the McLaren F1, and that costs about 16 times as much. Don't bring up Porsche either, easily discounted as being too common
ViolentBlue,
There is a similar (but quite old) story in the insurance industry. Anyway, a chap who runs an insurance brokers (top knob/big man etc etc) goes into
bmw shop (wearing jeans) and is palmed off by "The Salesman" to a trainee.
Trainee collects order for 18 bmw's and a personal cheque for commission.
ATB
Simon
I know a friend who went into a caterham dealership (not the main one down south). Wanted to buy one after having a seven before and had the cash.
Turned up in his battered old car. They didn't want to know him.
Month later he bought one from someone else!
Why does everyone like Volvo's are such slow tanks? That S60R has 300hp from the factory! Alittle added boost and some exhust and you could get
to 350 and its AWD. That thing would be quick!
There are quite a few old 240's pushing 500hp that are streetable using the inline turbo 4.
Sorry for the highjack of the thread.
Just to keep this sort of on track
I heard (ie have no proof but it was on the internet so it must be true) that McLaren / BMW bought a Ultima to do engine development work whilst the
F1 shell wasn't built.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Just to keep this sort of on track
I heard (ie have no proof but it was on the internet so it must be true) that McLaren / BMW bought a Ultima to do engine development work whilst the F1 shell wasn't built.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRI heard (ie have no proof but it was on the internet so it must be true) that McLaren / BMW bought a Ultima to do engine development work whilst the F1 shell wasn't built.
quote:
Originally posted by TheGecko
they were the best of a bad bunch from the kit car world and that McLaren found them barely adequate for the job, regards,
Dominic
How dare you imply that the Ultima is any less than perfect?
Man, you are in BIG trouble...
I just ordered that McLaren book... To me the car is Perfection.
Regarding chassis stiffness, I should ask what the structural rigidity is of the Attack... on their forum of course.
KB, it will be at least 85 Meganewtons per cubic quantum which is very stiff indeed...a very clever professor of automotive science in eastern europe
said so....
There see, no need to go to the attack forum now...
[Edited on 17/1/04 by Alan B]
Is it still 85MN/q³ with the optional "flux capacitor"? I'm sure the blurb mentions time travel somewhere, and on the face of it, the
car should manage 88 mph without rattling your fillings out. Maybe.
To take a quote completely out of context: "... curved-tube horror..." - Forbes Aird, referring to a motorcycle frame.
Whilst I'm skipping from random thought to random thought... Aston Martin purchased two Ultimas for drivetrain development of the new V8
Vantage. I haven't found them yet, I think someone's hidden them. I know one of the filler caps made it's way onto a Vantage
prototype...
M.
P.S. Yes, in case you were wondering, I work for Aston Martin.
[Edited on 18/1/04 by GTAddict]
That's without the flux capacitor...it would higher otherwise....duh..
Sounds like a quote from "Race car chassis, design and constrution"...?
Good book.
Hello Alan,
Yes indeed it is a quote from that book.
I just figured that (if GTM are to be believed) our Libra has a torsional stiffness of 14000 NM/°, or 10300 lbft/°. And our is a V6, so it gets a
couple of extra layers of fibreglass around the rear bulkhead where all the rear suspension is hung. Funky.
M.
[Edited on 18/1/04 by GTAddict]
Back to the McLaren, I used it as an example of what a super-car needs for front suspension travel. This while I was trying to explain to the Attack
boneheads that you really do *need* it.
It works out to 4.9" to be equivalent. Thread here:
http://www.attackforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1145
Seven hours later, this pops up:
http://www.attackforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1182&highlight=suspension
... that it doesn't have 1.6", but 4.9" of travel.....
Damn, am I good or what. They could have hired me, "A 'well-known' designer who has a degree and works for a big company."
Seriously, I wonder if that was posted to shut me up. I still wonder what the travel *really* is.
[Edited on 18/1/04 by kb58]
I think my friend put it best about the attack.
"Ya it looks fast just sitting there but when a bone stock 350Z pulls up beside you, they will beat you without trying."
I would be scared about the lack of bracing in the cockpit. It looks like it could twist there. Ohh and whats up with using Audi stuff up front and
Accord stuff in the back? Now you have to my 2 diffrent sets of rims. 
In the Attack's defense (really) I think it'll win that race due to a higher power/weight ratio. At around 2100lbs (maybe) loaded weight,
and a stock Honda H22A1, that's roughly 10lbs/hp. The 350Z is around what, 3500lbs and 270hp?
No, I look forward to the day I pull up behind an Attack in *my* Mini. With a >400lb weight advantage, that could be embarassing to someone... me
if they have a turbo...
Of course I'm not holding my breath to see an Attack here in California. Since the boneheads refuse to listen about emissions testing, claiming
I'm making it up, they'll be in for a surprise, starting with their factory-supplied gas tank failing inspection since it's not
DOT-approved.
Regarding the Audi TT doner parts up front, yeah there's another surprise waiting for them there. Sure the Honda Accord donar car will be
reasonably priced because of its age, not so with the TT. It could be hard finding one in the wrecking yards this soon, meaning those pieces could be
$$$$.
[Edited on 19/1/04 by kb58]
BTW Spottty, you shouldn't envy anyone. Yeah so you can't start 'til summer, but since it's going to take years, it doesn't
really matter.
Oh, and while you can't start on it until then, you should be reading design books *now* so you know *how* you're going to build your
dream-car.