Alan B
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 01:13 PM |
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Other middy cults....
Now don't get me wrong...I like Ultimas...very nice cars...
But, boy, are you in trouble if you are in any way critical of them....even to suggest they are a teenie weenie bit pricey is a burning at the stake
offence.....
I accept the product, customer service etc. is first class, but the sheer close mindedness of some of the flock......
Anyone else notice this?...or just me?
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sgraber
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 02:21 PM |
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I totally agree with that one. I was not allowed to even sit in the demo car when it first arrived in the US for the National Kit Car Show in
California... Maybe I didn't look "rich" enough? (I am a cheap bastard...)
But even worse are those "Meerkat" worshipers... Boy Howdy, try to say some thing bad about the Meerkat. You'll get a voodoo doll in
your likeness with some pins stuck in the most tender of places....
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Alan B
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 02:38 PM |
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And rightly so...
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kb58
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 03:42 PM |
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Haven't had much desire to check out other car-related "churches" since my last bad experience... I suspect that, regardless of
name, they still swing the same incense... and have the same mindless followers.
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Alan B
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 03:45 PM |
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So true.......at least we are somewhat open minded here......
Let them get one with it I say...at least we KNOW we are right....(in an open minded way of course.....)
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ProjectLMP
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 03:56 PM |
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Tell me about it. I was threatened with legal action for just stating facts on the Ultima board. They are nice cars, my friend built one and
subsequently sold it. They are not perfect (show me a car that is!)
Home of the Astronomicalcost Mid engined LMP project
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Simon
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 04:07 PM |
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Alan,
I too, am a fan of Ultima's vehicals.
Indeed, so much so, that if I had 18-25k spare, I'd be writing them a cheque.
I don't think their prices are that bad, considering everything is bespoke. Uprights/rack etc all made for Ultima to their spec - no donor parts
apart from Porsche box and a large engine.
Mind you, just seen the prices on US site. THEY are a bit steep!
ATB
Simon
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Alan B
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 04:18 PM |
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Simon, it's maybe not a value for money issue....they give great performance per pound/dollar...it's just finding that amount of
cash...
Yes, if I was honest, and had the spare cash I'd be tempted too......but as Paul says they or any car is not perfect.
I actually do admire the Ultima busness model, they do seem to have got it right...get the product as near perfect as possible...get the customer
service right...all together very professional set up.
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kb58
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 05:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ProjectLMP
Tell me about it. I was threatened with legal action for just stating facts on the Ultima board....
*That* is really bad... and I half expect the same to be leveled at me from the Attack forum.
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Spottty
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 05:57 PM |
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Well, I went to the factory on my honeymoon and they were really nice to us. We had 2 huge backpacks and showed up about 2 hours late (missed the
train). The guy was very professinal. I am sure when we left he was like "Wow, that was a waste of time, they will never buy one".
They are abit steep over here though (Canada). To build a budget one I would be looking at about $60-70K. Alot of money when you could buy a new M3
for about the same (or the S60R Volvo, AWD 300hp mmmm).
I will buy one though, they are really uniqe cars over here and I liked the company alot. I hope to have one in 5 years
Best thing to do for a build....
Ditch the wife! 
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Alan B
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 06:25 PM |
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I think it's good business to never make assumptions about who will and won't buy...you just never know, or even who they know who may be
interested....
When I was in the kit business 20 years ago we treated everyone the same (rude to everyone.....joking..)....after they had gone we'd swap
opinions on who'd buy and who wouldn't...we were often wrong...
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kb58
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 07:00 PM |
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In my experience I find there is lots of attention to a new kit car, but very few buyers put down money - maybe 0.1%. A buddy who's thinking
about starting a kit car company is so aware of this he says "info packs" will be $100. Yes, an income source. It also locks out people
who want free info but have neither real interest nor the money to buy. His logic is, if they can't demonstrate they're willing to spend
$100 on the car, (a tiny amount compared to the kit) it's a good bet they're not buyers.
I tend to agree with him.
BTW the Attack forum disagreed with me on this, but I digress...
[Edited on 15/1/04 by kb58]
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Alan B
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 07:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kb58.....the Attack forum disagreed with me on this.....
No, really, you're kidding.....
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violentblue
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 07:28 PM |
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I think it's good business to never make assumptions about who will and won't buy...you just never know
I know a rich farmer, he looked like a farmer too, who went into the local mercedes dealership (when we had one) salespeople ignored him, and when he
asked how much the mersedes suv's were worth, he was told "more than you can afford" so he went across the street and bought a
BMW.
[Edited on 15/1/04 by violentblue]
a few pics of my other projects
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GTAddict
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 08:56 PM |
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Ted Marlow's alright. I've talked with him at some length at the factory. I wouldn't buy one, however, even if I did have the
cash. It ain't pretty enough. 
Trouble is, if he made a pretty one, he'd have to charge the same as a TVR... or a Mosler.
Perceived vaue is a weird thing. I'm hoping it stays that way... 
Mark.
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kb58
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| posted on 15/1/04 at 09:11 PM |
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quote:
Perceived value is a weird thing. I'm hoping it stays that way...
Now there's a quote to remember!
[Edited on 15/1/04 by kb58]
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Simon
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| posted on 16/1/04 at 02:12 PM |
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Spotty,
I don't think you could compare a BMW (yawn) and a Volvo (very big yawn) with the Ultima.
For starters they're both saloon(ish) cars, and while they maybe practical, are way out of the Ultima performance envelope. The only car to come
close is the McLaren F1, and that costs about 16 times as much. Don't bring up Porsche either, easily discounted as being too common
ViolentBlue,
There is a similar (but quite old) story in the insurance industry. Anyway, a chap who runs an insurance brokers (top knob/big man etc etc) goes into
bmw shop (wearing jeans) and is palmed off by "The Salesman" to a trainee.
Trainee collects order for 18 bmw's and a personal cheque for commission.
ATB
Simon
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MikeR
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| posted on 16/1/04 at 05:54 PM |
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I know a friend who went into a caterham dealership (not the main one down south). Wanted to buy one after having a seven before and had the cash.
Turned up in his battered old car. They didn't want to know him.
Month later he bought one from someone else!
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Spottty
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| posted on 17/1/04 at 01:33 AM |
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Why does everyone like Volvo's are such slow tanks? That S60R has 300hp from the factory! Alittle added boost and some exhust and you could get
to 350 and its AWD. That thing would be quick!
There are quite a few old 240's pushing 500hp that are streetable using the inline turbo 4.
Sorry for the highjack of the thread.
Best thing to do for a build....
Ditch the wife!
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MikeR
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| posted on 17/1/04 at 11:11 AM |
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Just to keep this sort of on track
I heard (ie have no proof but it was on the internet so it must be true) that McLaren / BMW bought a Ultima to do engine development work whilst the
F1 shell wasn't built.
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Noodle
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| posted on 17/1/04 at 12:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Just to keep this sort of on track
I heard (ie have no proof but it was on the internet so it must be true) that McLaren / BMW bought a Ultima to do engine development work whilst the
F1 shell wasn't built.
I remember reading that in the give-away booklet that Autocar published when the McLaren was first launched.
Neil.
Your sort make me sick
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TheGecko
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| posted on 17/1/04 at 01:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRI heard (ie have no proof but it was on the internet so it must be true) that McLaren / BMW bought a Ultima to
do engine development work whilst the F1 shell wasn't built.
Well,
To quote from "Driving Ambition" the book that Doug Nye wrote along with Gordon Murray and Ron Dennis about the design, development and
production of the F1:
pg.117 - <quote>
Bruce McIntosh (former Brabham chief mechanic and manager of the McLaren prototype shop): "When it first became obvious we'd need a test
hack, we settled for something readily available on the British kit car market, and I was given the job of building it up to suit".
Gordon Murray: "Early on, Mansour Ojjeh suggested we should buy a Ferrari Test Rossa and cut it about. It seemed extravagant at the time, but
upon reflection it might have been less expensive to do just that!"
<end quote>
They eventually hacked and modified two Ultima's into test mules; 'Albert', with a Chevy V8, to test the originally proposed carbon
brakes and the first of the Weismann transverse gearboxes; and 'Edward', which carried the first of the BMW V12 engines and was eventually
the test car that BMW used in Munich for engine proving and for legislative emissions tests etc.
Both cars were eventually stripped and crushed when their work was done. Pictures of them in the crusher and the DVLA destruction certificates are in
the book too (pg.120)
My reading of the subtext in the chapter on these two cars (Chap.10 The Heavenly Twins), is that they were the best of a bad bunch from the kit car
world and that McLaren found them barely adequate for the job, expending a lot of effort on modifying them. I suspect, particularly in the case of
Edward, that there was very little Ultima left. They were pretty ugly in there modified form too!
By the way, if you are at all interested in the McLaren F1 run, do not walk, run to a good bookstore and buy this book
regards,
Dominic
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sgraber
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| posted on 17/1/04 at 04:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TheGecko
they were the best of a bad bunch from the kit car world and that McLaren found them barely adequate for the job, regards,
Dominic
Considering the amount of money and resources that these companies pour into R&D that statement comes as little suprise. This is also consistent
with a previous thread that showed some modifications to the Ultima chassis that brought it up from dismal torsional rigidity, to just sub-acceptable.
And I of course mean dismal compared to the fleet of supercars that it is commonly compared to!
An old Utima thread
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Alan B
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| posted on 17/1/04 at 05:42 PM |
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How dare you imply that the Ultima is any less than perfect?
Man, you are in BIG trouble...
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kb58
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| posted on 17/1/04 at 07:31 PM |
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I just ordered that McLaren book... To me the car is Perfection.
Regarding chassis stiffness, I should ask what the structural rigidity is of the Attack... on their forum of course.
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