Mr Whippy
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 12:15 PM |
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Have you vote on Independence – Even if you don’t live there!
This seems to be the only topic in the office for the last week, well that and GTA5…
We’re up in Aberdeen so oil revenue is the main reason given for independence, others just say they don’t feel British whatever that means.
Personally I thought it would be a landslide NO but it’s sounding surprisingly close, so I thought I’d put a poll on here for a laugh to see what it
came to.
Read the category’s properly before voting!
Cheers
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Irony
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 12:22 PM |
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Personally I hope for a 'No' vote. I don't think the average voter knows enough about economics to make a educated decision on the
subject. I also don't think there has been enough unbiassed factual information released by both parties. I was listening to it on Radio 2
yesterday and the speaker for the 'YES' vote was mocking the 'better together' campaign basically saying 'why
aren't we better now'. But she never produced any evidence other than spin about how we would be better apart.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 12:54 PM |
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There's a lot of work being done to secure the average Scottish Labour members vote... that will be the key to this election.
I think some still feel guilty about voting 'No' in the late-70's after swallowing the promise of more devolved governance (pretty
much the same as the last-minute 'Devo-Max' offer that's being cobbled together just now). Of course Scotland was ultimately
shafted when Maggie conceded nothing, but instead ripped our industries to shreds... and then experimented on us with the 'poll tax'.
It's Evolution Baby!
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chrisxr2
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 12:57 PM |
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I have posted this in every post I have replied to on Scottish independence and thus one will be no different.
I think what the good people of Scotland fail to realise is that if they do gain independence, about ten minutes later the Shetland Islands will
declare themselves a sovereign nation and claim all the oil rights etc that are within their territorial waters and the rest of Scotland will be
absolutely potless.
Also paying back the share of the banks that where bailed out "all Scottish" they are going to be a bit short on cash too.
Life moves pretty fast, if you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 01:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chrisxr2
I have posted this in every post I have replied to on Scottish independence and thus one will be no different.
I think what the good people of Scotland fail to realise is that if they do gain independence, about ten minutes later the Shetland Islands will
declare themselves a sovereign nation and claim all the oil rights etc that are within their territorial waters and the rest of Scotland will be
absolutely potless.
Also paying back the share of the banks that where bailed out "all Scottish" they are going to be a bit short on cash too.
If it's such a sure-thing, then why have Shetland, Orkney, and the Western Isles not done this already?
Probably because Shetland (a Scottish archipelago) comes under the jurisdiction of Scots Law... as does the maritime area to the north of latitude 55
degrees north (where 90% of the oil comes from). Becoming a sovereign state is so much more difficult if you are not already a recognised
'country'. Scotland is... the Scottish Islands are not.
It's Evolution Baby!
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ali f27
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 01:15 PM |
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Scotland wont have a problem with the debt if england denies them the pound think about it no pound no debt simples
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prawnabie
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 01:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by chrisxr2
I have posted this in every post I have replied to on Scottish independence and thus one will be no different.
I think what the good people of Scotland fail to realise is that if they do gain independence, about ten minutes later the Shetland Islands will
declare themselves a sovereign nation and claim all the oil rights etc that are within their territorial waters and the rest of Scotland will be
absolutely potless.
Also paying back the share of the banks that where bailed out "all Scottish" they are going to be a bit short on cash too.
If it's such a sure-thing, then why have Shetland, Orkney, and the Western Isles not done this already?
Probably because Shetland (a Scottish archipelago) comes under the jurisdiction of Scots Law... as does the maritime area to the north of latitude 55
degrees north (where 90% of the oil comes from). Becoming a sovereign state is so much more difficult if you are not already a recognised
'country'. Scotland is... the Scottish Islands are not.
It will be like Sealand all over again!
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D Beddows
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 01:45 PM |
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The sensible real world answer is no - but if people want it so much (and that self serving twonk Alex Salmond for their king) then let them have it -
just lets not let them back in 5 years or so when it's all not been quite as good as they expected and they have to pay university tuition fees/
more taxes etc etc because there isn't actually as much money as they were lead to believe.......
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 01:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chrisxr2
Also paying back the share of the banks that where bailed out...
Scotlands share of the National Debt is currently thought to be £100 billion.
One way of looking at that is that Scotland pays £3.3 billion per year to the treasury for defence. Only £1.9 billion of which ever comes back north
of the border. And of what does, a large portion of it will go towards the maintenance of Trident and Scottish Regiments involvement in overseas
operations.
An independent Scotland will no longer be paying towards either of these nonsenses.
It has been forecast that an independent Scotland will set it's defence budget at £2.5 billion per year. That's a saving of £0.7 billion
from the get-go. I guess that money could go straight towards Debt repayment. It would pay off Scotlands share within 160 years (inclusive of
interest) and the country wouldn't even have noticed the funds leaving the account!
But there's more good news... that £2.5 million defence budget is now being wholly spent in Scotland. Remember - that's £0.7 billion MORE
than is currently being spent in Scotland and there's the added benefit of no Trident maintenance or wars in 'Wherevastan' to fork
out for. That money can be spent on defence equipment FOR Scotland and the redeployment of those who no longer work for Trident based departments.
JOBS!
Sure, it's much more complicated than this, but the basic projections look good for an independent Scotland.
*Edited because I got the national debt figure wrong! 
[Edited on 9/9/14 by scootz]
It's Evolution Baby!
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nick205
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 01:58 PM |
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Outside Scotland and NO
Alex Salmond comes across IMHO as a megalomaniac hell bent on taking Scotland to perceived independence. Again IMHO a better approach would be
carefully considered and methodically implemented devolution of powers to Scotland, whilst maintaining the union for the benefits it brings to all
parties in the globalised world we now live in.
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 02:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Outside Scotland and NO
Alex Salmond comes across IMHO as a megalomaniac hell bent on taking Scotland to perceived independence. Again IMHO a better approach would be
carefully considered and methodically implemented devolution of powers to Scotland, whilst maintaining the union for the benefits it brings to all
parties in the globalised world we now live in.
So that better approach will be 'Devo Max' option that Alex Salmond favoured on the ballot papers over the single 'Yes /
No' vote then!? The same option that was clinically dismissed by the UK Government who DEMANDED it be a 'Yes / No' vote only.
And now the forecasts have it neck-and-neck the Westminster elite are desperately trying to cobble together a quasi-Devo-Max plan. Too little, too
late, too reminiscent of the false promises given in the 1979... and quite probably breaking the basic democratic Purdah rules!
It's Evolution Baby!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 02:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by chrisxr2
I have posted this in every post I have replied to on Scottish independence and thus one will be no different.
I think what the good people of Scotland fail to realise is that if they do gain independence, about ten minutes later the Shetland Islands will
declare themselves a sovereign nation and claim all the oil rights etc that are within their territorial waters and the rest of Scotland will be
absolutely potless.
Also paying back the share of the banks that where bailed out "all Scottish" they are going to be a bit short on cash too.
If it's such a sure-thing, then why have Shetland, Orkney, and the Western Isles not done this already?
Probably because Shetland (a Scottish archipelago) comes under the jurisdiction of Scots Law... as does the maritime area to the north of latitude 55
degrees north (where 90% of the oil comes from). Becoming a sovereign state is so much more difficult if you are not already a recognised
'country'. Scotland is... the Scottish Islands are not.
maybe Orkney and Shetland will just re-join Norway instead - after all they've only been part of Scotland for a ~540 years 
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 02:31 PM |
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Same sentiment applies...
It's Evolution Baby!
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 02:43 PM |
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Bored with the whole thing. I hope there is a Yes vote and be shot of them....I don't see why the rest of the UK should subsidise Scotland any
further, Devo Max is pandering to the partner that wants to go, so away you go and don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.
We'll keep the debt/pound/Trident/RBS/BoS/Scottish Regiments and so on. Nah bother. You have a whale of time on the Oil Dollar....till it runs
out.
[Edited on 9/9/14 by jeffw]
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whitestu
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 02:59 PM |
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If it is a choice of vote no and get devo max or vote yes and sperate I'd go for yes, so I agree with JeffW.
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Slimy38
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Irony
I don't think the average voter knows enough about economics to make a educated decision on the subject.
My thoughts exactly. I doubt even the politicians themselves can understand/predict the full impact.
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:07 PM |
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Looking forward to the Soviet Socialist Republic of Scotland and the rise of the working man so long held down by the yoke of English oppressive rule.
I do wonder who you will all blame for your problems when you're masters of your own destiny...Tony Blair/Gordon Brown, great scots one and
all.
Here some questions for all the Yes/SNP supporters...
if there is a Yes vote the SNP becomes irrelevant, yes or no?
If there is a Yes vote there will be no point in any Scottish MPs in Westminster after next May's election?
Just think, we'll be able to cancel all the shipbulding contracts in the foreign country and bring it all home. Don't worry about
finishing the carriers, we'll tow them to Portsmouth.
[Edited on 9/9/14 by jeffw]
[Edited on 9/9/14 by jeffw]
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snapper
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:18 PM |
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At this late stage there is still no clarity on NHS, pensions, Nuclear, borders, etc, etc, etc,
I just don't think either side has explained enough and I truly fear for the futer of all if the union splits up
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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jeffw
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:26 PM |
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NHS is easy, NHS Scotland is a separate entity for which all the budgets and control where devolved several years ago (funny how they Yes campaign
blame the English for their NHS....)
Borders are as is...depending on Scotland joining the EU or not will dictate the requirement for border posts.
Scotland doesn't want a Nuclear Deterrent (even though they wish to be members of NATO) so that will have to shift from Coalport/Faslane to
either Devonport or somewhere in Wales.
I actually hope the Scots join the EU....I can then send my son to a Scottish University for free !
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Here some questions for all the Yes/SNP supporters...
If there is a Yes vote the SNP becomes irrelevant, yes or no?
If there is a Yes vote there will be no point in any Scottish MPs in Westminster after next May's election?
The SNP will still exist as a political party after a 'Yes' vote... their relevance once independence is signed, sealed and delivered
would be decided by the electorate though.
If there is a 'Yes' vote, then it will take time for the transition to occur. I think the proposed date is May 2016, so there's a
year where Scotland should still have representation at Westminster. I would suspect that these seats would be given up once Scotland I declared a
sovereign state though.
A question for you.. can you break down the figures please that show how the rest of the UK subsidises Scotland (as per your suggestion in a previous
post).
It's Evolution Baby!
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snakebelly
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:49 PM |
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None of you are asking the right question.. Will we have to pay import duty on Scootz's disposal bargains?
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
NHS is easy, NHS Scotland is a separate entity for which all the budgets and control where devolved several years ago (funny how they Yes campaign
blame the English for their NHS....)
Just to be clear - the amount of money made available for NHS Scotland is set and delivered by Westminster. The complaint is not what is done with
it, but that it is not enough in the first place... especially when weighed against what is spent on the likes of Trident, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 03:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snakebelly
None of you are asking the right question.. Will we have to pay import duty on Scootz's disposal bargains?
No need... we will bootleg via a 'locost-tunnel'! 
It's Evolution Baby!
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D Beddows
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 04:05 PM |
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Everyone in Scotland will be millionaires this time in 2 weeks and they wont have to spend anything anyway because everything will be free, paid for
by the limitless oil reserves in the North Sea
That seems to be the message being fed to the tabloid reading Jeremy Kyle watching 'common man' in return for their vote. There are going
to be some very disappointed faces!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 9/9/14 at 04:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
complaint is not what is done with it, but that it is not enough in the first place..
I've got plenty of complaints about whats done with the money regardless of any yes or no votes ! (not that its any better in England either
mind)
for a start they could sack 2 out of 3 people in the back offices / middle management side of it and not notice any drop in performance (I've
know enough people that worked in the offices to know what goes on)
then you could let the doctors decide who needed appointments - not the waiting list managers who currently decide not just when you get seen but also
in some cases if you ever get seen at all 
then with all the money they've saved by sacking that lot they could actually build a hospital that's at least close to big enough !!!!
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