blakep82
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:11 PM |
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when does a car become a car?
 
Description
had to put the truck out on the street today so i could do a bit of welding on a mates car, this got me thinking...
if a skip can be left out on the street, ok
my 'car' certainly looks like a car, but as it is, can't be driven, has no electrics at the moment, and no key to start it, no
chassis number, and not registered, can it really be considered a 'car'?
there's a family at the end of the street, they sometimes are suspected of reporting people for stuff, but obviously never admit to it.
sister had a car reported years ago for tax running out that day. fair enough it was untaxed and parked on the street.
kid over the road had motorbikes, and rides them up and down the street, there was some issue there a while a go too, he had no license and neither
did the bikes
but is my car really a car yet? yes its untaxed, and uninsured, but it can't have either yet and no way it can be
where does the line get drawn?
there's been no problems today, just curious
discuss 
[Edited on 5/1/12 by blakep82]
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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owelly
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:19 PM |
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Under similar circumstances, a friendly traffic cop explained it along the lines of:
"If it looks like it has been built or modified for road use, it will be classed as a road vehicle."
He then went on to explain that it would be up to a judge to decide if your 'thing' was a vehicle or a skip.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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chrisbeale
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:20 PM |
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i would think because its not registered then you cant have a "ticket" written for it as they would have nothing to reference it too. once
its got plates and requstered as a car, then i would say yes its a car.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:20 PM |
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Yes it's a car because it has a registration document (should have). As its parked on the road, it's done so without tax or insurance and
is liable for towing and/or crushing. A skip still requires a license from the local authority before placing it on their property.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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mcerd1
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:23 PM |
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make a skip disguise for it out of cardboard painted yellow 
what about this:
-
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blakep82
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
Yes it's a car because it has a registration document (should have). As its parked on the road, it's done so without tax or insurance and
is liable for towing and/or crushing. A skip still requires a license from the local authority before placing it on their property.
well, this is it, it doesn't have a registration document, as its never been S/IVA'd, has no chassis number, and is not possible to to
start or drive in its current state, yet it does LOOK like a car
and i'm not saying its a skip lol, but is an 'object' at the side of the road, as a skip can be an object at the side of the road
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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jacko
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:28 PM |
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Looks like a SKIP to me 
Only joking Blake
Graham
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Cornishman
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:34 PM |
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Stick a Skoda badge on it....... You'l be fine
Steve.
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blakep82
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jacko
Looks like a SKIP to me
Only joking Blake
Graham
well, it doesn't look its best... going to get some white or grey filler primer soon to so the whole lot. should look a bit more respctable then
lol
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IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Benzine
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:51 PM |
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If it's not a legal vehicle (i.e. no V5, chassis number etc etc) then how would it differ from, say, a bowtop wagon? It's just an
unpowered thing with 4 wheels, and you don't need MOT, tax and insurance for a bowtop.
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Mr C
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 06:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Cornishman
Stick a Skoda badge on it....... You'l be fine
Steve.
So last year..
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
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loggyboy
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 07:40 PM |
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Here is your answer:
The term 'motor vehicle' is defined in section 185(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and section 136(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act
1984 as "a mechanically propelled vehicle, intended or adapted for use on roads".
More details here on case law:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences/#definition
Basiclly if the courts/jury/member of the public would consider it a 'motor vehicle' then it is one!
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 07:48 PM |
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Quite a few years ago, (before S.O.R.N.), I had a mate whose 'car' got ticketed by plod, because it was untaxed, unisured and according to
them parked on the road. He went to court and won his case. He argued, with appropriate evidence, that at the time of the 'alleged'
offence the item in question was not actually a motor vehicle of legal description. This was due to the fact that, at the time of the
'incident' and for some months previously the alleged vehicle had been and still was located on site with the front end up on ramps and
the alleged vehicle had no engine, gearbox or propellor shaft, and, us such, was incapable of being classed as a motor vehicle as it was no longer
capable of being 'self propelled' as in the legal definition of a 'motor vehicle'.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 08:13 PM |
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Don't know whether it's a car or not but you could be done for causing an obstruction on a pavement
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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blakep82
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 08:38 PM |
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i don't even think the postman uses the pavement... its a dead end street of 13 houses, so very little pedestrian traffic. they walk to the
their cars, then drive off
________________________
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don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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afj
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 09:18 PM |
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Would you rather get a ticket for an untaxed vehicle on the road. ........or........ Fly tipping a heap of metal and fibreglass
eerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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owelly
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 09:35 PM |
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JGG, please tell me more!
quote:
Quite a few years ago, (before S.O.R.N.), I had a mate whose 'car' got ticketed by plod, because it was untaxed, unisured and according to
them parked on the road. He went to court and won his case. He argued, with appropriate evidence, that at the time of the 'alleged'
offence the item in question was not actually a motor vehicle of legal description. This was due to the fact that, at the time of the
'incident' and for some months previously the alleged vehicle had been and still was located on site with the front end up on ramps and
the alleged vehicle had no engine, gearbox or propellor shaft, and, us such, was incapable of being classed as a motor vehicle as it was no longer
capable of being 'self propelled' as in the legal definition of a 'motor vehicle'.
I'm very interested to know more about this court case. Once a ruling like that has been passed, it becomes usable in other cases. It may be the
wording of the ticket that got your mate off the ticket or some other technicalities, but the claim it wasn't a motor vehicle because it
din't have the ability to 'self propel' wouldn't get him off.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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contaminated
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 09:45 PM |
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Are we not missing the point here a bit? Even if it's not a car can you name any other large object that you can just plonk in the road without
permission? You need permission (if not road tax) for a skip in theory don't you? That said, what about caravans and trailers? Similar to your
truck in some respects.
Tiger Super Six Independent
www.southernkitcars.com
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owelly
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 09:53 PM |
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Which is why I'm interested in JGGs mates case!
I had a lot of grief over a boat mounted on a trailer, a car rolling shell and a plant trailer that was not on the highway, but in a 'public
place'. The traffic cop I mentioned in the first reply to this thread, explained what they classed as a 'motor vehicle'. I'm
not too sure of the exact wording but it went along the lines of what I posted.
Claiming a vehicle isn't a motor vehicle just because it can't 'self propel' is very odd as it means you can simply run out of
fuel, pull off a plug lead, eat the keys, to make it perfectly legal to dump it out in the road.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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RAYLEE29
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 09:53 PM |
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If it was on a trailer it would be ok? wouldnt it? just a thought.
Ray
build diary1
http://picasaweb.google.com/raylee290/RoadsterPics#
build diary2
http://picasaweb.google.com/raylee290/KITCARPICS?authkey=Gv1sRgCI2AouyYgpuQmAE#
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owelly
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 09:56 PM |
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A motor vehicle mounted on a trailer then becomes a part fo the trailer therefore must comply with the trailer construction and use regs. The trailer
must be parked safely, in accordance with the road traffic act (including being parked facing the correct way with reflectors etc) and have third
party liability insurance (which will be covered if attached to an insured tow vehicle).
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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MikeR
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 10:11 PM |
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I'd guess the definition of self propell is could it reasonably self propell. If you add fuel it will go. If you fix the plug lead it will go
etc etc.
If it has no engine, gearbox, propshaft then its pretty impossible for it to go without major work.
(all guesswork & looking forward to the answer as it could be interesting)
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mad4x4
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 10:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
I'd guess the definition of self propell is could it reasonably self propell. If you add fuel it will go. If you fix the plug lead it will go
etc etc.
If it has no engine, gearbox, propshaft then its pretty impossible for it to go without major work.
(all guesswork & looking forward to the answer as it could be interesting)
So I take a Landrover - Drop off both Prop shafts and I can then park it on a street without tax insurance or SORN - Yeah Right......
I think we have hit what is technically known as a grey area.....
same with insurance - when does a collection of Steel/ fibre glass etc become a car and is there for not covered as contents or a garage on house
insurance.... same thing?
Scot's do it better in Kilts.
MK INDY's Don't Self Centre Regardless of MK Setting !
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 10:54 PM |
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I think I'd have to say that the roads are a place for transport to move around safely, not a rubbish dump or a storage location. And you need a
permit to put a skip on the road.
quote:
there's a family at the end of the street, they sometimes are suspected of reporting people for stuff, but obviously never admit to it. sister
had a car reported years ago for tax running out that day. fair enough it was untaxed and parked on the street. kid over the road had motorbikes, and
rides them up and down the street, there was some issue there a while a go too, he had no license and neither did the bikes but is my car really a car
yet? yes its untaxed, and uninsured, but it can't have either yet and no way it can be
Sounds to me like you live in a place where plenty of people try to flout the law, so I suspect the police will frown on you as they would frown on
other people in the area.
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blakep82
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| posted on 5/1/12 at 11:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Sounds to me like you live in a place where plenty of people try to flout the law, so I suspect the police will frown on you as they would frown on
other people in the area.
lol, never been to gourock have you? its far from that round here. can't remember the last time i saw a police car up here for any reason
as for traffic moving around safely, the guy over the road moved his pick up 10 minutes later after he finished washing it, and then 2 cars left in
the following 2 hours. quite safely
[Edited on 5/1/12 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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