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Author: Subject: Dutton on the V5 but it's actually a Sylva Striker.....
Oi_Oi_Savaloy

posted on 11/9/17 at 07:41 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fishywick
You asked for advice on Pistonheads on 8th Sept, the first line of the first reply was this......

"Check the log book says Sylva or raw striker on it and not escort/Sierra/dutton/robinhood etc. It should describe the car. If not walk away"

That wasn't me but it was very sound advice, and still is.


You're right - and I just thought 'oh no' when I heard that. But despite that I thought there would be a way to rectify it without having to take every panel off and rebuild the entire car to demonstrate I'd built it.


Perhaps I should put some photos up to demonstrate? But I can't put too many - nothing that would identify the car etc.

I've saved and saved (hard when you've got 3 kids, the mortgage etc etc) and tbh it's now or never. Next yr we've chosen to go private on education for the kids - everything I earn will go into that.

That's why I'm upset. Just see it as a last chance tbh

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kingster996

posted on 11/9/17 at 08:37 PM Reply With Quote
Sorry I don't understand. Why now or never?

Buy a ringer now and you'll regret it.

If you think you will be buying a huge bargain, remember it will be an illegal one. So will possibly end up costing you.

Posting pics might help but reality is that unless it has some really nice components then 1.4 k series striker isn't really going to be worth that much let alone one that is not correctly registered. So unless it's under £2k and you have another £1500 to £2k to spend, then you are on a road to nowhere in my opinion.

Listen carefully to the advice you have asked for and been given






I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure

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loggyboy

posted on 11/9/17 at 08:48 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
[I thought there would be a way to rectify it without having to take every panel off and rebuild the entire car to demonstrate I'd built it.



You dont have to prove you built it. You could drive it from purchase to IVA and theres a small chance it would pass first time. Chances are there some things that need work. Most likely emissions, interior/exterior projections.






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Benzine

posted on 11/9/17 at 09:09 PM Reply With Quote





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Oi_Oi_Savaloy

posted on 12/9/17 at 07:41 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
It really does not matter how honest or honourable the seller is, the car is a ringer. Full stop. End of.

Chances are that sooner or later the DVLA or VOSA will get wind of it and you're screwed. Or you have an accident and you're screwed.

Therefore in order to work out if you should buy it, you need to ascertain if the value of the components (less the time taken to strip and sell) are worth the asking price. Or alternatively if the added cost and potentially huge amount of hassle to get it IVA'd is worth the asking price.

The reality is that there are probsnly loads of legit kit cars out there for sale at this time of year that will end up costing you less in time and money.


yes to injection, yes to cat converter but that letter.......no chance I think.

I'm really upset - I'd totally bought into this car mentally. No money has changed hands as yet - car is being mot'd etc etc prior to pick up.

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Oi_Oi_Savaloy

posted on 12/9/17 at 07:44 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
[I thought there would be a way to rectify it without having to take every panel off and rebuild the entire car to demonstrate I'd built it.



You dont have to prove you built it. You could drive it from purchase to IVA and theres a small chance it would pass first time. Chances are there some things that need work. Most likely emissions, interior/exterior projections.


Thanks Kingster996 - I do hear you and the excellent advice I've received.

Just trying to find a way to stand by my word (I've given him my word etc etc). Incidentally it's fine on emissions (I realise that's incidental and there are far more serious things potentially but at least that's something).

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nick205

posted on 12/9/17 at 08:00 AM Reply With Quote
Read most of the thread and the car simply screams "ringer" to me - stay away!

It may or may not have been the seller that put the car in that state, but whatever the "story" it'll cost you £1k+ to put it right (IVA, registration etc.).

Whilst I'm a lover of cars, including kit cars, they should be tested and registered correctly or it WILL bite you on the backside. For example if the insurer has any suspicion the car is different from what they been asked to insure they may well refute the policy and not pay out o you or another party. To me that situation just doesn't bear thinking about. Monies in insurance claims can get out of hand very quickly

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chillis

posted on 12/9/17 at 09:31 AM Reply With Quote
The problem you will have is when you have bought it and apply for the logbook it will be refused, it's almost certainly flagged at the DVLA especially if they refused the engine change.
Nothing about this suggests to me the guy selling it is honourable, just good enough talker to convince you. But once you have bought it its your problem.
Correctly IVA'ing and registering a kit built car legitimises it so anyone not doing so is running an illegitimate car and the risk of invalidated insurance etc etc etc.
If you were buying an unfinished & unregistered kit would you still buy it for the money? 'cos that's what you would be buying.
IMO this is not the time to let your head rule your heart but we have all been there - just be clear on what you are getting into. The fact it is illegally registered should be your cue to really beat him down on price even more. This should be really dirt cheap not because you have to IVA it but because he's selling you an illegal car!





Never under estimate the ingenuity of an idiot!

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loggyboy

posted on 12/9/17 at 09:42 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
Just trying to find a way to stand by my word (I've given him my word etc etc). Incidentally it's fine on emissions (I realise that's incidental and there are far more serious things potentially but at least that's something).


Emissions for Mot will be easy, as being a Q it only needs to not show visable smoke, for IVA you would need to prove engine age and for that one occasion the emissions would be based on figures comparable to the fitted engine (so mid 90s emissions).

[Edited on 12-9-17 by loggyboy]






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mcerd1

posted on 12/9/17 at 09:44 AM Reply With Quote
Just remember everyone here would love to see another kit back on the road - just not a ringer...

paying good money for ringers just helps ignorant / unscrupulous builders to build more ringers




going forward - what is your rough budget ? maybe we can collectively point you towards a better car





- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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Schrodinger

posted on 12/9/17 at 11:43 AM Reply With Quote
One other point, if you need more, if you get stopped by the police and they decide it's a ringer it's crushed so you will have nothing to show for your spend, you may also get done for other things like no insurance, invalid mot to mention a couple. I would not take the risk unless it was well under £1k.





Keith

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JimSpencer

posted on 12/9/17 at 11:48 AM Reply With Quote
Hi

I've got a Striker and they certainly can be got through the test.

My suggestion is to think about this a bit differently - and if you proceed to buy it, do that a bit differently too..

My striker was SVA tested and is/was road legal - I say the latter as for the last few years it's been SORN'ed and we've only used it for events/track days - it's not seen a road..

You could treat this car the same?

If the car is worth it's price - without the number plates and registration documents - and you get a nice track day / competition car out of it then Buy It - but buy it without the number plates and documents, leave them with him - they're his problem and you don't want or need them IMHO.

If it's not worth the Current price as a pure track / competition car, then re-negotiate the price with him until it is

HTH

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coyoteboy

posted on 12/9/17 at 12:31 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]


But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?


because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.


But it wouldn't get a Q if it was using a dutton reg. It would get the dutton reg?





Report your local potholes, it actually works!

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SJ

posted on 12/9/17 at 12:47 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]


But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?


because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.


But it wouldn't get a Q if it was using a dutton reg. It would get the dutton reg?



Doesn't that just mean the Dutton was on a Q reg?

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The Knobs

posted on 12/9/17 at 02:00 PM Reply With Quote
It looks like you have made your mind up but unless it is £2k I would not bother. Decent legal striker is no more than £6K in the winter and I am sure one will come up by xmas.
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stevebubs

posted on 12/9/17 at 03:22 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SJ
quote:

quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]


But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?


because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.


But it wouldn't get a Q if it was using a dutton reg. It would get the dutton reg?



Doesn't that just mean the Dutton was on a Q reg?


Yup

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kingster996

posted on 12/9/17 at 03:38 PM Reply With Quote
At the end of the day, it's your money and your call.

But every single person on here is pretty much saying "walk away" - or at the very least treat it as an unregistered track car of exceedingly dubious parentage!

What you need to ask is WHY?

Why would someone build a 'well put together' car with 'lots of build photos' etc and then not register it correctly?

Money? Well, the IVA and reg will cost you around £500 assuming you have built it to pass (potentially a lot more if you haven't) - so how much did a Dutton V5 cost in comparison? Bearing in mind that the car would always be worth way more as a legal one, it must have needed more spending on it to pass than just the fee to justify the cost of a dead Dutton - so what's wrong with it?

Time? It's much quicker and easier to stamp up a chassis than it is to IVA and then deal with the DVLA - so maybe the builder had some reason to want to be on the road that was worth losing money for - can't think of one mind?

Theft? Maybe the Sylva was stolen and then the Dutton identity grafted on to sell it on - certainly one reason to remove a legit Sylva chassis number and replace it with another before punting it out to an uneducated buyer.

Accident Damage Maybe the car has been a write off and to disguise the fact that it had serious damage a new identity was grafted on?

The other issue here is that the Striker is well known as a really sweet handling track car - so I'm sure plenty of buyers would want a decent one - BUT now that it has had the original Sylva chassis numbers ground off and replaced with dodgy Dutton ones, it is potentially longer going to be seen a "real" Sylva by those in the know - in fact who knows what chassis is under there and who welded it up for that matter. Then even if you choose to IVA it - can you prove it's a Sylva to the next buyer without a 'proper' chassis number as evidence?

Whatever happens, this car will always be worth way less than a genuine Striker - so once again, unless it is for buttons (relatively speaking) and you actually want all the hassle, don't buy it.






I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure

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motorcycle_mayhem

posted on 12/9/17 at 04:19 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Knobs
Decent legal striker is no more than £6K in the winter and I am sure one will come up by xmas.


Unless a seller is merely listing for enjoyment purposes, or attempting to instil a sense of warmth within himself over the 'value' of his car, then £6K is more than ample. Cars do sometimes come up where the seller actually wants to part with it, so yes, just wait a while.
Most cars will be known by folk on here, so that might help.

Plenty of absolute crap out there masquerading as something that might be desirable, caveat emptor, if in any doubt whatsoever simply walk away.

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Toys2

posted on 13/9/17 at 03:20 PM Reply With Quote
If he was to go down the project >IVA route. How would he stand on not having receipts for the components. Or is this
just a requirement to get new/age related registration?

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scimjim

posted on 14/9/17 at 01:28 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_SavaloyHe tried to change the engine size (wrote to the DVLA) but they refused to acknowledge this as they felt he was trying to go down a level on the car tax?


I've registered a change of tax class on 2 cars - both pre 2001 going down a bracket (1.6 CVH to 1.3 CVH and 1.6 CVH to 1.4K series) with no real problems outside the usual DVLA ineptitude, so I have to question your assessment of the sellers honesty?

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SJ

posted on 14/9/17 at 01:32 PM Reply With Quote
The dvla can be awkward on changing the engine size. I tried to to change mine and they wouldn't believe me even though I was increasing the engine size.
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scimjim

posted on 14/9/17 at 01:47 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SJ
The dvla can be awkward on changing the engine size. I tried to to change mine and they wouldn't believe me even though I was increasing the engine size.


They will insist on the right info being provided but they can't "refuse to acknowledge".

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SJ

posted on 14/9/17 at 01:52 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

uote:
Originally posted by SJ
The dvla can be awkward on changing the engine size. I tried to to change mine and they wouldn't believe me even though I was increasing the engine size.


They will insist on the right info being provided but they can't "refuse to acknowledge".



In my case it was nothing to do with information. It was evidence they wanted in the form of an engineers report. If by 'refuse to acknowledge' you mean make no changes despite being informed, then that is exactly what they did.

This is the DVLA we are talking about.

[Edited on 14/9/17 by SJ]

[Edited on 14/9/17 by SJ]

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loggyboy

posted on 14/9/17 at 02:15 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Toys2
If he was to go down the project >IVA route. How would he stand on not having receipts for the components. Or is this
just a requirement to get new/age related registration?


Part source is not relevant for IVA (only engine age for emissions)
For DVLa registration, where you dont have 2 major donor parts, or receipts for all new major components, you will get a Q.






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Toys2

posted on 14/9/17 at 02:59 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Toys2
If he was to go down the project >IVA route. How would he stand on not having receipts for the components. Or is this
just a requirement to get new/age related registration?


Part source is not relevant for IVA (only engine age for emissions)
For DVLa registration, where you dont have 2 major donor parts, or receipts for all new major components, you will get a Q.


Good to know, I've not been through the IVA, I built a Cobra - pre SVA, now I run a Striker that was already registered on a Q before I got it

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