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Author: Subject: Dutton on the V5 but it's actually a Sylva Striker.....
Oi_Oi_Savaloy

posted on 11/9/17 at 03:18 PM Reply With Quote
Dutton on the V5 but it's actually a Sylva Striker.....

Knowing me and my history of cars I'm sure this is going to get complicated.

I've committed to buying a car - it's a striker. but the v5 says duttonkit. the car is on a q plate. I'm not sure on the background but the mot checker on line says it's a 1600 (it was a crossflow I think) - the actual engine in the car at the moment is a 1.4k series.

It's had MOT's (in it's current guise) over the last 4 years (nothing in the last 18 months however as the owner hasn't been well, hence the sale to me in fact).

He tried to change the engine size (wrote to the DVLA) but they refused to acknowledge this as they felt he was trying to go down a level on the car tax?

So - my questions are these.

Do I need to re-iva the car, once in my possession or should I just leave it and carry on?

Will there be implications for insurance for example?

I'm not going to be driving it on the road til these issues are sorted of course. I'm going to do a trackday in Oct and see how it goes.

Thanks

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loggyboy

posted on 11/9/17 at 03:23 PM Reply With Quote
Its a ringer - if you can walk away.
If not then yes it will require IVA and re-regestering.






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theconrodkid

posted on 11/9/17 at 03:36 PM Reply With Quote
if it,s not as described on the V5 then it is a ringer, i cant see why you cant walk away





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Angel Acevedo

posted on 11/9/17 at 03:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
if it,s not as described on the V5 then it is a ringer, i cant see why you cant walk away


I would think so too...
If you buy beeef and get pork...
The problem may be getting your money back.





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ian locostzx9rc2

posted on 11/9/17 at 04:01 PM Reply With Quote
As said it's a ringer walk away or if it's very cheap Iva it .
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The Knobs

posted on 11/9/17 at 04:04 PM Reply With Quote
Basically a ringed car, don't buy it. Funnily enough one of my old Strikers turned into a TR Race car overnight and was sold by a garage without being spotted. C7 ALP if anyone ever comes across it
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Oi_Oi_Savaloy

posted on 11/9/17 at 04:16 PM Reply With Quote
Trouble is I believe the story. I don't get the impression there's anything untoward.

At the price it's v good value.

Its been v well put together imo.

I'm not going to get another chance to buy something like this at the price imo.

What will I need to do to IVA it and re-register it?

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coyoteboy

posted on 11/9/17 at 04:26 PM Reply With Quote
Might be a true story, but it's still registered incorrectly and you'll have to fix at least that.





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femster87

posted on 11/9/17 at 04:27 PM Reply With Quote
Don't kid yourself into buying it. If you do, factor £1000 in for IVA and the trouble.
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neilp1

posted on 11/9/17 at 04:29 PM Reply With Quote
quote:


What will I need to do to IVA it and re-register it?


Over 500 quid and a trip to IVA test center where it will probably fail and cost another 90 quid.

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loggyboy

posted on 11/9/17 at 04:41 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
Trouble is I believe the story. I don't get the impression there's anything untoward.

At the price it's v good value.

Its been v well put together imo.

I'm not going to get another chance to buy something like this at the price imo.

What will I need to do to IVA it and re-register it?


What is the 'story'?

I love a bit of non fiction. I'll give you my summary without even knowing:

A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.

It may not have been the chap you bought it off, but he may/will have then brought in ignorance, which is no excuse.

There is no other reasonable reason why the car would be registered as something its not.

Move the same principles to a tin top - if you were buying a BMW but it was registered as a Fiesta, would you even think about buying?

[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]






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The Knobs

posted on 11/9/17 at 04:49 PM Reply With Quote
Treat as an unfinished project and the price may not be as good as you think.
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coyoteboy

posted on 11/9/17 at 04:50 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]


But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?





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jossey

posted on 11/9/17 at 05:00 PM Reply With Quote
The Dutton club look on these sites and report them to the DVla and then you get a letter the cosy if an iva is nothing compared to the cost of getting the car ready for the iva





Thanks



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cliftyhanger

posted on 11/9/17 at 05:39 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]


But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?


because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.

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leon51274

posted on 11/9/17 at 05:46 PM Reply With Quote
Been there and done that.

Years ago I bought a locost based ron champion dutton special, at the time I had no knowledge of kit cars, a year later and probably thick end of 6k less in my pocket I then became a little more knowledgeable on kit cars and realized I had a ringer. I'd even managed to get an agreed value for insurance purposes by supplying pictures of the car! I couldn't live with the fact I was driving a ringer and so I striped it down and sold all the parts, I still have the dutton v5 and have no idea how I would get dvla to just scrap it, i suspect they wouldn't so I'm more than likely stuck with it. I now have a fully road legal haynes roadster and my conscience is clear.

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motorcycle_mayhem

posted on 11/9/17 at 06:18 PM Reply With Quote
Your initial question about having to 're-IVA' the car, had me smiling. The car, has of course, never been IVA'd (the Striker I mean) unless it once was and then it's IVA'd identity given to another Striker (or something else). If the Striker has never been IVA'd, it may have not been built with the IVA in mind, so the hassle and cost getting it compliant may well be considerable.

You'd probably be disassembling the car entirely, rebuilding, photographing, logging, etc... well, I would.

Any insurance 'policy' you obtain for a Striker, under the guise of a Dutton, won't be usable if anything happens. Same if you bought a Westfield registered as a 'Ford Convertible' or an MK Indy as a Rickman Sports.

Keep it on the track, or IVA it for the road. Alternatively walk away.

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fishywick

posted on 11/9/17 at 06:27 PM Reply With Quote
You asked for advice on Pistonheads on 8th Sept, the first line of the first reply was this......

"Check the log book says Sylva or raw striker on it and not escort/Sierra/dutton/robinhood etc. It should describe the car. If not walk away"

That wasn't me but it was very sound advice, and still is.

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kingster996

posted on 11/9/17 at 06:31 PM Reply With Quote
As others have said it's a ringer. So it is not legal. It is not a good idea to buy it.

If you are going to buy it (foolish move) it will need an IVA - but bear in mind that to get a registration you need to show it is "amateur built" and that means showing evidence of how you built it.

So how will you do that?

Walk away. Do not buy. It is not a bargain!

[Edited on 11/9/17 by kingster996]






I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure

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Oi_Oi_Savaloy

posted on 11/9/17 at 07:07 PM Reply With Quote
He had a folder of pictures, talked me through the build, showed me some of the work and thought that has gone into the car.

I'm really upset. I've not parted company with any money yet. He's moting it and then I'm away so it was October before I'd be able to pick it up. I've been driving it in my head however (if that makes any sense).

I feel he's an honourable man; you know when someone is on the level within 5 secs of meeting them. I'm going to go back to him and ask some harder questions.

And you're right. I can't insure it etc when it's a Ford and I'm saying it's a beemer. Just not going to work. At the price I'm paying however it might still be a worthy track day car (but I want to use more often than 4 times a year).
Damn, damn, damn and three times damn! Oh wait.

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Sam_68

posted on 11/9/17 at 07:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Oi_Oi_Savaloy
I feel he's an honourable man; you know when someone is on the level within 5 secs of meeting them. I'm going to go back to him and ask some harder questions.


The obvious solution, if he's really as straight as you think, is to make the purchase conditional upon him getting the car IVA'd and correctly registered a a Sylva.

The engine capacity issue doesn't ring true, either: the DVLA cannot refuse outright to change the engine capacity on a suspicion: the most they could do is to demand proper evidence, which it relatively straightforward to provide (...if the car will stand up to basic scrutiny, of course).

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Toys2

posted on 11/9/17 at 07:18 PM Reply With Quote
It sounds like we are being tough, but I can't imagine a single legal scenario where a Striker ends up registered as a Dutton
He needs to explain how this happened

As a Striker owner (pre IVA) I can imagine them being hard to get through an IVA without being built with the test in mind

May I ask the ball park price?

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trextr7monkey

posted on 11/9/17 at 07:24 PM Reply With Quote
I have had over 20 different kit cars and would not touch anything that's not correctly registered- life's too short and anything to do with DVLA / VOSA is long winded and troublesome. The dodgey car registered with Dutton documents has been a standing joke for many years to the extent that all Duttons were being dragged down in value and opinion until a few years ago when they decided to tackle the issue head on. There's a bloke called Adrian who is on here and he has worked extremely hard to clean up the mess with the help of other enthusiasts so that they can continue to enjoy their legal Dutton Duttons so maybe mentioning that to the vendor might push price to the point where the parts exceed the value of the car at which point you can rebuild/ break without it costing too much ultimately
Hth
Mike
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Ugg10

posted on 11/9/17 at 07:36 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fishywick
You asked for advice on Pistonheads on 8th Sept, the first line of the first reply was this......

"Check the log book says Sylva or raw striker on it and not escort/Sierra/dutton/robinhood etc. It should describe the car. If not walk away"

That wasn't me but it was very sound advice, and still is.


Me :-)

It would need to be less than £2k IMO, probably what you will get for the parts if you broke the car, obviously de-registering the car with the dvla and selling the chassis as unregistered or for track only. That gives you a budget of about £2k to rebuild and get through Iva (agree with budget of £1k to get through test alone without remedial action), remembering the engine, if it is later than 1995 will need injection and cat converter and a letter of proof of age from rover (hmmmmm). A basic live axle striker with standard 1.4 k series on escort front discs and rear drums and a std type 9 when properly road registered and IVA' is probably worth about £5k at best if it is nice as a guide.





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kingster996

posted on 11/9/17 at 07:40 PM Reply With Quote
It really does not matter how honest or honourable the seller is, the car is a ringer. Full stop. End of.

Chances are that sooner or later the DVLA or VOSA will get wind of it and you're screwed. Or you have an accident and you're screwed.

Therefore in order to work out if you should buy it, you need to ascertain if the value of the components (less the time taken to strip and sell) are worth the asking price. Or alternatively if the added cost and potentially huge amount of hassle to get it IVA'd is worth the asking price.

The reality is that there are probsnly loads of legit kit cars out there for sale at this time of year that will end up costing you less in time and money.






I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure

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